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And then Michael Dobbs called me during the transition period and said he was going to do a profile of me. And I gave him a bunch of addresses of people in Yugoslavia and in Czechoslovakia. And then he’s the one who came up with the fact that three of my grandparents had died in concentration camps, which is quite different from finding out that you’re of Jewish background.
And it was the horror of finding out about the horrible death of my grandparents that truly was the great tragedy. And in addition to the divorce chapter, this was the hardest chapter to write.
And I tried to really lay it out and try to explain why it was so difficult and how hurtful it was to have my father, whom I adored, be accused of trying to hide the facts when, from everything that I knew about my parents, all they ever did was try to figure out ways to protect us. Not only in – I mean, I guess the motivation for changing their religion is fairly obvious, to survive during the Nazi era. But what do you think their motivation was to never tell you?
They had gone through having to leave their country twice. They came to the United States in , ’49, and it – and then in the ’50s when we were getting our citizenship. And I think they just thought that it was safer not to tell. By the way, I have the highest respect for Harry Truman and think he’s one of the great American presidents.
But if you read what has recently been revealed about what he said about Jews, then I think one can understand why my parents, coming to a new country from a country where Jews have been exterminated, might have thought that it was wiser not to tell us. Why they didn’t tell me later, I don’t know the answer. Now, you grew up Roman Catholic. At your husband’s request, when you got married, you joined the Episcopal Church and then found out later in life that your family is really of Jewish descent.
So where are you now laughter in terms of faith? I mean, it’s a little hard to be 66 years old and be unclear about something like this. I was raised a Christian, and I am a – I don’t see myself not being a Christian.
I find it very difficult to assimilate all of it. And I don’t know. I mean, I go to an Episcopalian church when I go, but many of my beliefs are very Catholic because I grew up a Catholic. And I respect Judaism, but I don’t see myself practicing it. So it – you know, I have to honestly admit that it’s sad in many ways to be this old and to be unclear about something that is so basic.
She died Wednesday at the age of A little later, we’ll hear the interview we recorded in during the Trump presidency after the publication of her book, “Fascism,” in which she warned about the growing authoritarianism in parts of Eastern Europe and sounded the alarm about the threat of authoritarianism in the U. Let’s get back to the interview I recorded with Madeleine Albright, the first woman to serve as secretary of state.
President Clinton appointed her in his second term after she served in his first term as U. Did you suddenly find yourself in a much more privileged world than the world you had traveled in? I know your father had been a diplomat, probably knew a lot of very important and powerful people. But still, was this a different world for you? But the truth is that when my father had been ambassador, you know, we lived in an embassy and had a chauffeur and a maid and a cook and a butler and various other accoutrements of a privileged life.
But then when we came to the United States, we were, as was known at the time, displaced persons and arrived in Denver with nothing beyond this green Ford coupe that my parents had bought. And so people lent us furniture, and we bought some junky furniture and lived in university rental housing.
So life was quite different, physically, never different intellectually or emotionally because my parents were very clear that our life would go on in a respected way. But when I did marry into Joe’s family, it was quite different. It is – it’s a family that had many houses and servants and a lot of privileges.
He told you that he’d fallen in love with a woman who was a reporter, who was considerably younger and beautiful. And you say that you hope that he was just being noble and brave because he was really diagnosed with a brain tumor laughter and was just trying to spare his family the pain of watching him suffer.
Well, unfortunately or fortunately, whatever, that wasn’t the case laughter , and he was just leaving you for another woman. You say that when he did leave you, it left you with no confidence in your looks.
Did you get over that? And as a woman who spent her life in the limelight, in front of cameras, but not in a beauty pageant, in diplomatic positions, in secretary of state – you know, in the position of secretary of state, did looks matter to you? How important was that? And so I think that if you go around moping or, you know, you decide one day you’re never going to wear makeup, it doesn’t work.
I do think that you have to remember that you are representing your country. And it’s very interesting. I actually don’t think I wrote this in the book, but before I went up to the U. And Jeane Kirkpatrick, we probably disagree a lot on policy, but our lives are not dissimilar because we both taught at Georgetown. And what she did was ask me to come in and talk to her – or we had lunch.
And she said – she was very funny. She said, Madeleine, get rid of the professor clothes, and buy yourself some good clothes because you really do need to look good for this job. So Jeane and I agree on those particular issues.
And it does matter how you look. And I tell one story in the book where we had had all-night negotiations on a resolution to do with Haiti, and I had done real retail diplomacy, gone around and talked to every one of the Security Council members. And I looked exhausted, and, you know, I’d rumpled my hair, and all the makeup was off of my face.
But I – we were going to have time between what I was doing and the final vote. So I went back to my apartment, started all over, put on a blue linen dress that I thought I looked good in, came back, looked a lot better than all my colleagues, who were unshaven, and I think it looked as though I had confidence. We won the vote. I don’t think because of my blue dress, but I think it does help to look good.
After a break, we’ll hear the interview we recorded in during the Trump presidency, after the publication of her book, “Fascism,” in which she warned about the growing threat of authoritarianism in parts of Eastern Europe and the threat to democracy in the U. Today we’re remembering Madeleine Albright, who became America’s first woman to serve as secretary of state.
She was appointed by President Clinton during his second term and served as U. Albright died of cancer Wednesday. She was The second interview we recorded was in during the Trump presidency.
She had just published her bestselling book, “Fascism,” in which she wrote reading we should be awake to the assault on democratic values that has gathered strength in many countries abroad and is dividing America at home.
The book examined how fascism took hold in Hitler’s Germany and Mussolini’s Italy. Then she warned about how authoritarianism was taking hold again in several Eastern European countries and was already well in place in Russia and North Korea.
One chapter was devoted to Trump and the alarming threat of authoritarianism in the U. This book is a very personal one in a lot of ways because you fled fascism twice.
Your family is from Czechoslovakia, where you were born. The family fled fascism when you were a child, first, from Hitler. You moved to England. What is the warning you want to send to Americans about what is happening here? But let me say, the reason that I wrote the book and the warning is, as you’ve pointed out, it’s something that I saw or have certainly heard about from my parents. And part of the reason for writing it is to say that, in fact, this can happen in countries that have democratic systems, that have a population that’s interested in what is going on, that is supportive, because so many of the things that have happened and happened in Czechoslovakia were steps that came as a result of ethnic issues with the German minority, but mostly steps that seemed not so terrible that there couldn’t be a deal made.
And so that’s what’s so worrisome, is that these – fascism can come in a way that it is one step at a time and in many ways then goes unnoticed until it’s too late. ALBRIGHT: Within the system, and partially because it is a way of undermining democracy and the democratic institutions that are the basis of democracy or criticizing the press or thinking that there are those that are enemies of the people and are the cause of distress or bad economic situation.
And it kind of works on the fear factor rather than the hope factor. He was close to the president of Czechoslovakia. And so when your father sensed that the Communists were taking over, the president of Czechoslovakia was saying, no, it’s going to be fine.
Don’t worry about it. And your father left in spite of those reassurances. You know, the whole family left in spite of those reassurances. And you were lucky that you did. You write your father would have been put in prison had the family stayed in Czechoslovakia – so another example of how when fascism or authoritarianism or Communism is coming, not everybody sees it. ALBRIGHT: And that’s absolutely true, because part of it, both with the fascism and with the Communism – there really was not enough pushback from the people and, to some extent, the authorities there at the time.
Or there’s an outside power that doesn’t support. So, for instance, what happened when the fascists took over was the period that is known as appeasement that, in fact, was carried out by friends and allies, like the British, who gave in to what this group that was organized to help Hitler in what is known as Sudetenland, the small part of Czechoslovakia that was occupied by a German minority. And people thought, well, if we give in on this, nothing else will happen.
And that’s – is exactly what did happen. One step led to another. And if you are trying to feed the beast and the beast is a fascist, then it makes it very hard to push back. Every age has its own fascism. What are you trying to say by using that quote? Are you saying, don’t expect fascism to look like it – exactly like it did with Hitler or Mussolini or Stalin? ALBRIGHT: Well, that’s exactly – because one of the reasons that I wrote the book was to show the different ways that fascism has penetrated a lot of our societies now.
And each one is a little bit different. And certainly, eras are different. And so one has to look at what some of the signs are but not expect a total replication that everything is exactly the same because – both the situations in the country, the international situation, what is happening with technology, how people see their lives.
So it’s very hard. And frankly, Terry, the hardest part in the book was really coming up with exact definitions because it’s always slightly different.
I want to read a passage that you write in your book, “Fascism: A Warning,” a passage about President Trump.
You write, reading we’ve never had a president, at least in the modern era, whose statements and actions are so at odds with democratic ideals. Trump has spoken harshly about the institutions and principles that make up the foundation of open government. In the process, he has systematically degraded political discourse in the U.
And I think that that’s what’s worrisome. And the passage that you read really does show that what he’s trying to do is undermine the press – and has disdain for the judiciary and the electoral process and minorities. And I think that his instincts are not ones that are democratic. And he is interested basically in, I think, exacerbating those divisions that I talked about.
And so I am very concerned. And basically, this is – you know, I’ve written the book because I have picked up that phrase, see something, say something. And I am seeing some things that are the kinds of things that we’ve seen in other countries.
And so I’m saying not only should we say something, but we have to do something about it. And he seemed to see NATO as being about, like, some kind of business arrangement where America was being played. We were being taken advantage of because we were paying more. They entered NATO in when you were secretary of state. So NATO was very important during your tenure in in that position. I mean, the shape of NATO changed. How does that feel personally?
Because you were so – like, NATO was such an important part of your professional life as secretary of state. And I always say, as a European who has spent her life in the United States, I see the Euro-Atlantic alliance as one of the most important bulwarks of our society.
So seeing this go on, I find appalling. And what is the issue, again, it’s this lack of understanding of what this alliance is about. It is not somebody coming to rent hotel rooms to see if they can get the best price or – it’s not transactional.
It is something that is basic to our system. And so I think one of the parts, though, Terry, is that he’s gone back on certain things, so that he generally has now said that he is supportive of NATO. So one of the parts that’s a little bit confusing, what is he really for? What is he against? Is it one of those things where the last person that speaks to him has all the influence? But I do think that what is going on with Europe and our relationships with Europe are part of the very – you know, are really a big part of the problem in terms of a lack of understanding about America’s role.
And then one other part I think that is really part of this story is that what Trump is doing is making America seem like a victim.
Everything is somebody else’s fault. Countries are taking advantage of us. The Mexicans are sending drug dealers. Countries are not paying their dues. The trading system is unfair. And by making Americans seem like victims all the time, it then is able to again make the divisions stronger in terms of who’s with us, who’s not with us and is totally anti-American foreign policy.
And so I think it’s very, very worrisome in terms of this victimhood. I don’t see America as a victim. I see America as the most powerful country in the world that has a role to play standing up for democratic ideals and human rights across the board. We’ll hear more of the interview after a break.
We’re remembering Madeleine Albright, the first woman to serve as secretary of state. She died Wednesday at age Let’s get back to the interview we recorded in after the publication of her book, “Fascism,” in which she warned about authoritarianism in several Eastern European countries and sounded the alarm about the assault on American democracy.
We have evidence now that Russia interfered in the presidential election. We don’t know what their plans are for the midterms. If you were secretary of state, would you see a role for yourself now in dealing with future Russian interference in our democracy? But it was actually outrage in America over photos in a French magazine that led, in part, to the proposed anti-pageant measure. In December , French Vogue published a photo spread that featured a heavily made-up, provocatively dressed year-old model.
It sparked controversy in France — after the U. But far from all Americans are smitten — or even entertained — by the phenomenon. It’s still worth a watch. And the obsession with beauty — and pageants — extends beyond U. Venezuela, second only to the U. It’s enough to make this mama sad — and mad. Accessibility links Skip to main content Keyboard shortcuts for audio player.
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I learned a lot of things about you this week I didn’t know – for one thing, that your parents, both of them, were, broadly speaking, in show business. First, let’s hear from Adam Felber. Now Iceland is enticing tourists with something new to convince them to come. Don’t Tell Me!
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Residents of Eugene, Ore. She recently published a book of photographs featuring several celebrity portraits. Farmers want the government to make up the difference. Women’s Rugby Football Club in are lawyers, doctors, students and mothers: women who are serious about the game of rugby.
Martin Luther King, Jr. Le Guin discusses the process of writing in her latest multimedia work, The Valley. Michael Winston, a historian at Howard University, discusses the significance of slave deeds recently discovered in a Washington, D. Her latest film, Smithereens , was accepted at Cannes to compete for the Palme d’Or. Capitol grounds. Accessibility links Skip to main content Keyboard shortcuts for audio player. NPR Shop. NPR Audio Logo Wade In The Water.
Is ‘Ms. Her supporters say it was because of her anti-colonial speeches. However, a recent AU internal report alleges abuse of funds and office. The African Union has ended the term of its charismatic and outspoken ambassador to the United States. Tens of thousands have come to her defense, claiming she’s been unfairly targeted for her anti-colonial speech. But an internal investigation report obtained by NPR paints a different picture of the ambassador, one of a rogue, corrupt and self-dealing diplomat.
Arikana Chihombori-Quao is defiant. She speaks about how colonial powers, like France, continue to pillage Africa. Quao served more than three years as ambassador, and she had become quite popular among the African diaspora.
When her term was ended by the African Union last month, almost 90, people signed an online petition asking the AU to reinstate her.
The petition claims that she was fired because of that kind of speech and called her dismissal unjust. But an internal investigation by the African Union alleges that Dr. Quao misappropriated funds, that she created a toxic environment for her staff and that she fundraised for personal projects using the African Union name. The investigation, for example, found that Dr. The money, the investigation found, was earmarked for other projects.
But Dr. Quao did not turn over sales to the African Union. Reached by phone, Dr. Quao calls the investigation a sham and a witch hunt. She says she used ticket proceeds to pay members of the diaspora who had experience putting together events like these. Quao says that money never came to the African Union. She says when she became ambassador, she found an office in disarray. That was really the problem with this mission.